Israel describes itself as a Jewish and Democratic state. But, of course, as with most things here, this description is far more complicated than it seems. What do we mean by Jewish? Do we mean a state governed by Halacha (traditional Jewish law)? Do we mean a state whose official symbols, such as the flag and national anthem, are Jewish? Do we mean a state composed primarily of Jews? Defining "Democratic" isn't much easier. No country in the world (as far as I know) is actually a democracy, which would require its citizens to actively run the government (the US, for example, is a Democratic Republic). And no country is actually 100% Democratic, which would mean that 51% of the citizens can vote to kill the other 49%. If no state meets this definition of Democratic, what do we mean when call Israel Democratic? Does the fact that the Palestinians living in the West Bank under Israeli military authority can't vote mean Israel isn't Democratic? If so, did the US stop being Democratic when it occupied Germany and Japan after World War II? The Hartman Institute, which defines itself as a "pluralistic research center", held a symposium on this question in the fall of 2008 to try and answer some of these questions. You can find their various answers here. So, is Israel a Jewish and Democratic state?
שבת שלום! pt. 2
7 years ago
Though I do not believe a Jewish Democratic state has to be a contradiction within itself, I believe that the way Israel is currently being run does make the two words jewish and democratic contradict itself. Having a Jewish state is completely logical; in that same way the French have their own state, Jews should have a Jewish state. With that logic in mind, it makes sense that the flag, the language, etc. all represent the Jewish culture. However, I believe that if this Jewish state is also supposed to be democratic, it is important that religion be taken out of the government- maybe not completely, but it should be far more secular than it currently is. By having a government that is largely dominated by the most extreme sect of judaism, it alienates every other sect. I do not believe this is democratic, because a democracy should start at a more liberal viewpoint, and then the population can determine how conservative they want their way of life to be from there. Orit Kamir says "The State of Israel as a democracy is not at all justified in enforcing a very specific definition of Jewish identity that is intertwined with a religious definition", and I believe that completely explains the contradiction of a Jewish and Democratic identity. To be democratic, we should be able to acknowledge the government as culturally, but not religiously Jewish. Additionally, there is the issue of the majority of the state being Jewish. If we are to count the Palestinians as part of the population (which many argue we should, because we control their territory), then we can see about 45% of the state are not Jews. Additionally, the treatment of these Palestinians is not democratic. Essentially, Israel as it currently is needs work to actually be a Jewish and Democratic State. It currently seems to be far more Jewish than Democratic.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Israel is defined as both a Jewish and Democratic state. This being said, I think that Israel is more Jewish than Democratic, as Jamie says above. The official meaning of “Jewish” in Israel is to follow halacha, which is a huge problem. I think we need to have a Jewish state in a more pluralistic way, where “Jewish citizens can define their Jewishness in any way they choose” according to Orit Kamir. While the majority of the population has the right to vote, the Palestinians living in the West Bank cannot. To me, the fact that 1/3 of the population are not citizens at all, and the fact that many Palestinians are denied the right to vote makes me think that Israel is somewhat undemocratic. Though Israel is Jewish and democratic to an extent, there are certainly improvements to be made in developing a balance between the two.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with both Maya and Jamie. A while ago we had a class conversation about what we believe the definition of being Jewish is, and if we think there should be specific criteria a person must fall under in order to be officially considered "Jewish." Personally, I don't think that there should be specific way to define Judaism because one doesn't have a right to tell any other person what they do or don't believe in. Having said this, I believe that Israel is a Jewish state for obvious reasons, however, I don't think it is welcoming to every Jew in the world. The fact that my beliefs as a Jew aren't recognized or respected by the sect that runs all religious aspects in the country is problematic. If Israel identified as a Jewish state and remained culturally Jewish while allowing all the different sects of Judaism to practice their own unique customs, I think it would be a more welcoming place in terms of religion. When it comes to whether or not Israel is democratic, I think the idea is definitely there but the fact that the Palestinians living in the West Bank don't have full rights creates a huge problem. It is a very complicated situation with no clear answer at this point but regardless of this, it is still hard for me to say that Israel is completely democratic when 1/3 of their population cannot vote. So, like Maya said, I think Israel is Jewish and democratic to an extent. It is hard to find the balance, however, because there is always a group that will be unhappy with the outcome.
ReplyDeleteI do believe Israel is both a Jewish and Democratic state, but I disagree with Israel's definition of Judaism. I do not believe a person is only Jewish if they follow Havlach, I believe there are many ways to interpret this religion and I hate that the state of Israel refuses to recognize the other branches of Judaism. I agree with Jamie's logic of the reasoning for the necessity of a Jewish state as well; if the French, the Germans, and the Italians (etc) all of their own states, the Jewish should as well. However, I feel that Israel is currently more Jewish than Democratic at the moment. Yes, America continued to be Democratic while occupying Germany and Japan after World War II, but their treatment of these people does not compare to the way Israel has been treating the Palestinians in the West Bank. I feel that Israel is lacking a lot of the Democratic aspects as a state right now, as they are not treating all of their people as equals and providing them with the right to vote, but nonetheless I think that a Jewish and Democratic state go hand in hand, and eventually will resolve these issues.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what has been stated above as well. I think in some ways, Israel is both Democratic and Jewish. However, I think that only goes to a certain extent. When I think of Israel, I think Jewish. The country's flag has a Star of David on it, the national anthem is Hatikva, the national language is Hebrew, and much more contributes to the Judaism aspect of Israel. Although Israel likes to say that they are democratic, I don't necessarily agree. The ultra-orthodox control many aspects of this country, which I do not agree with. In their religion, women are not seen as equal, many Jews aren't considered Jewish because they do not follow Halacha, or have a Jewish mother. To me, this is ridiculous. It is obvious that Jewish culture takes precedence in Israel, and I think that in order to be more democratic, we need to find a balance. We need to be more welcoming to all types of Judaism, religious or not, and we also need to be more welcoming to our neighbors. If Israel can find a perfect balance, then I think they can be able to say that they are both Jewish and Democratic.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the comments above, I find a common trend that says how we want it to be both democratic and Jewish, but it is not. Personally I have come to think of Judaism as more of a culture and nationality than religion. This means that I also think, like a few of the readers from the packet, that as long as us Jews, Am Yisrael, are together in one place then it will be considered Jewish. This being said, the democracy part will not have to be tied to any religion in any way. Obviously there are still faults in this and many would disagree with this logic, but to me it is the best possible solution.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Israel has the potential to be both a Jewish and democratic state, but the way that it is run right now, it is only Jewish. As Omit Kamir says, "The State of Israel as a democracy is not at all justified in enforcing a very specific definition of Jewish identity that is intertwined with a religious definition." I think that she is saying that Israel is Jewish and democratic in the eyes of the ultra-orthodox because their sect of Judaism is what dominates the religious aspect of Judaism in Israel. If the tables were turned and a Reform rabbi was creating laws based off of the Reform ideals, then the Conservative and Ultra-Orthodox would most likely feel religiously confined, as majority of the Conservative and Reform Jews today feel, and the Reform Jews would be perfectly happy. To change this, Israel should create a law that allows each individual to define their own Jewish identity. For Israel to be a Jewish state, it is vital that we have Hatikva as the national anthem and have a Jewish star as a part of the national flag. In the same sense, Israel cannot be solely a democracy. In order for Israel to be both a democracy and a Jewish state, as harsh as it may sound, has to be democratic only for the Jewish people. If the majority of the population is not Jewish, then the state loses its ability to control the way that Jews are treated. It is a very controversial topic that can be solved in many different ways, but my opinion is that Israel is Democratically Jewish, meaning that it allows religious freedoms, but first and foremost, protects the Jewish people.
ReplyDeleteTo me, Israel is a Jewish State, but not a democratic one. Unlike the Ultra-Orthadox who are the state rabbis of Israel, I believe that anyone who wants to be jewish can be jewish, irrelevant of the background of their parents or the religion they were brought up to be. By being a jewish state and not allowing certain people to be defined as "jewish" already endangers their democracy. The state is also not democratic because the Arab population in Israel is denied citizenship. They cannot vote, join the army, or end their discrimination. In my opinion, a state cannot be both religious and democratic because the two ideas counter each other. As Rachel Sabbath Beit-Halachmi said, "The intrinsic paradox of a state with both a religious and a democratic identity is underscored every day." Throughout history, those states with a religious identity have denied democracy to other religions. Although Israel does not do that, it limits religious toleration to muslims through discrimination and stigmas.
ReplyDeleteI would have to say that Israel is a Jewish State but not a democratic one. I base this off of the idea that Israel is military occupying part of the West Bank and won't let them be citizens or let them vote. It's very complicated but there are definitely a lot of people in the West Bank who don't want to be citizens of Israel. But some do and can't. This is unfair because Jews living in the West Bank are given citizenship in Israel and are allowed to vote. "Neither is the state democratic, since at least a third
ReplyDeleteof those who are ruled by the state – three
and a half million people – are not citizens
of the state. "The Arab population is denied a lot the benefits of living in Israel, a huge aspect of that is voting. In a democracy every person should have the right to vote but in Israel that is not true. At the same time I do believe that Israel is a Jewish state. It seeps into every aspect of our society and if we take out the Jewish part of Israel it would not longer be Israel anymore. Even the name of our state, Israel is Jewish. That is why Israel is a Jewish, non- democratic State.
I think that compared to other countries in the Middle East, Israel is the most democratic. At the same time, I think that Israel is Jewish state and not a democratic state. I think it is possible to be a democratic state and a Jewish state, but in order to do that, the regulations for each end of the deal would have to change. In order to be more democratic I think Israel should reflect more of a modern interpretation of Chalacha instead of going off of the rules that only 20% of Israel follows. I think I agree mainly with Orit Kamir’s stance on this debate. She says that we need to find the right balance between being Jewish, and being overly-Jewish. She thinks that if Israel is going to be considered Jewish and democratic that it means that Jews should be able to define their Jewishness, not have a Hassidic man tell them how to be Jewish. In order to be Jewish and democratic, Israel needs to be a place where Judaism is defined in whatever way a person feels, and that cultural Judaism is more important right now than Chalahic Judaism. I love that Israel is unique for being the only place where Jews can go and call a “Jewish State”, but at the same time I wish that, it would not lead to constant fighting with surrounding nations. I believe that the more democratic Israel becomes, the more accepted Israel and the Jews will become into the rest of the wold.
ReplyDeleteJudaism should not be enforced by the government. They should not require someone to be Jewish by their given definition and should not enforce Halacha. That being said, Israel should be Jewish by giving Jews a home and being nationalistically Jewish (Jewish Anthem, Jewish Symbols, etc.). The democratic part as you said is not easy to decide. Israel is, by far, the most democratic country in this part of the world. Israel also, unlike America, gives minorities a say in government which is great for being democratic. Palestinians in the West Bank is a much harder topic but they live in occupied territory and do not recognize Israel as a legitimate country, therefore they do not and should not get a vote.
ReplyDeleteThe debate between Israel as a Jewish or as a democratic state is no that has no clear answer. It is important that Israel remains the homeland of the Jewish people, but it also must not be a discriminatory and despotic nation. With that being said Israel should be a Jewish - Democratic state, with Judaism under the constraints of democracy. As Simon stated, the way in which Judaism is practiced should not be legislated through the Israeli government. However Israel should maintain the star of David on its flag, hebrew as its national language, and the Hatikvah as its national anthem. As long as Israel is culturally Jewish, and maintains a Jewish identity as well as a right of return then Israel will be Jewish. These values do not contradict democracy and still allow Israel to be a fully free and democratic state.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think of Israel, the first thing that comes to my mind is the word Jewish. Jewish culture, religion, language, the flag, the anthem, they all compile to create the foundation of a land that has been a safe place for Jews all over the world for years. Israel as a Jewish and democratic state is ideal, and even though many people consider Israel democratic, I personally believe that this idea conflicts with the current management of the state. Only 20% ultra-orthodox live in Israel, yet they dominate important governmental decisions and believe that in order to truly be considered Jewish, one must follow Chalacha. This contradicts the beliefs of the majority of Israel's population and like Orit Kamir says, in no sense is having someone else define your Jewishness demonstrate democratic values. There needs to be a balance between being overly religious and overly influenced by culture. A major problem in identifying Israel as a democratic state is the 1/3 of the population of Palestinians who are denied the right to vote, not considered a valid citizen of Israel, and in many cases are discriminated against. To me, this is a clear sign that the democratic title of the state is still a work in progress and needs to be altered in order to encompass that label to its full extent. Unfortunately, not everyone can be pleased in the establishment and function of a state, but there is a difference between not being satisfied with an outcome because of religious beliefs and completely being denied your rights. I know it is easier said than done, but until a balance is found between the extreme religious groups and the more secular citizens, and until each and every person living in the land is acknowledged as a citizen and processes the same rights as everyone else, then Israel will be a step closer to encompassing both the Jewish and democratic aspects of the state.
ReplyDeleteLike so many topics we've discussed this year, there is no right answer here. Obviously it would be amazing to have a purely Jewish and democratic state, but that also seems impossible. I think Israel as it stands now does a good job of being a Jewish state and a decent job at being democratic. I think there are improvements to be made on both fronts, but overall, the system isn't completely broken. Alexander Yakobson wrote that "the expression 'a Jewish and democratic state' seems entirely unproblematic to me." I agree. I think that in terms of ideology and principles, having a country that is both Jewish and democratic is possible. Judaism holds the values of equality, freedom of expression, and other democratic virtues as very important. In a sense, Judaism is democratic in its ability to allow interpretation. Additionally, as Yakobson wrote, "But the injustice, the inequality, is not created by the fact that Jews have a state that grants them this right [of the Law of Return], but by the fact that the Palestinians do not have a state that grants them this right. Thus the remedy is not to take this right away from Jews, but to grant it to the Palestinians in the Palestinian state. This is the two-state solution..." Essentially, one of the best (if not the best) way to truly achieve both democracy and and the values of Judaism in Israel would be the two-state solution.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the comments above in the sense that Israel is more Jewish than democratic, but i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. With the Palestinian civilians for example, some say that we should give them the same exact rights as we do to Jewish Israelis in order to be more democratic and more fair/just, but what does that mean for a Jewish state. The state of Israel is supposed to be a Jewish State and having (not necessarily a majority, but a huge impact on the population) so many Palestinians become a part of Israel could lessen the "Jewishness" of the state in a sense. They can form large groups, join coalitions, and eventually overrule the simple things that make Israel a Jewish state like the language or the national anthem for example. I do think that the terms Jewish and democratic contradict each other in some aspects, which limit the ends of both spectrum, but I don't believe that makes it impossible for Israel to be a Jewish and democratic state I the future.
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